[Jandek] Re: letter conclusions/twisted gourd

[ian nauroth]

I feel like the term "outsider music" makes about as much sense as any other
term used to classify music. I think its just there and what it means isn't
as important as it being just a reference point. To me what makes something
"outsider music" is partly just our inability to accurately classify it as
anything else. A lot of it is unstructured and/or it has some kind of
mystery or insanity surrounding it  but it's basically music that's
different enough to require its own categorization outside of any other
existing genre. Classifying music would be totally pointless to me if it
weren't for the fact that we all feel such a strong need to discuss it. When
I say "outsider" you know what that means.

- Ian

On 10/10/06, jandek-request at mylist.net <jandek-request at mylist.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Re: letter conclusions/twisted gourd (Lauren Ciechanowski)
>   2. RE: jandek Digest, Vol 54, Issue 204 (allan macinnis)
>   3. Re: O/S orders (allistur cranston)
>   4. What do Jandek fans listen (david martin)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Lauren Ciechanowski" <ciechano at stolaf.edu>
> To: jandek at mylist.net
> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:54:22 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: Re: [Jandek] Re: letter conclusions/twisted gourd
> I think asking what 'outsider' music means is about as fair/unfair as
> asking what 'rock' or 'pop' means. To me, outsider music is contingent on
> its 'turn it off!!' factor - that is, the probability that, out of a
> random selection of 15 or so people, 10-15 would yell 'turn it off!!'
>
> That, or just music that doesn't fit the mainstream. You really can't
> listen to Jandek and not think sometimes, 'what is he *doing?*,' in the
> same way you can't listen to Daniel Johnston and not think that from time
> to time. Conversely, both musicians also have their endearing/musically
> superior moments.
>
> You also find 'outsider' music to be just 'weirder' in general -
> 'outsider' is certainly a more respectful term/genre than 'weirder'
> though, don't you think? Aquarius and Forced Exposure both have some WEIRD
> shit for sale - I suppose you could say it also qualifies as 'outside the
> box,' if you're into catch-phrases. Um...elephants out of Thailand playing
> the xylophone? The sound of wire cables 'whislting' in the wind?
>
> I don't know - there's a different ref at every game, but that doesn't
> mean the ball ain't foul when it goes over the post...
>
> Lauren
>
> > What does outsider music mean?  Outside of what?  When we figure out
> what,
> > do we care if something is outside or inside of it?  is it patronizing?
> > what's the point of categories anyway...? aren't they generally
> distorting
> > things and being untrue?
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "allan macinnis" <ammacinn at hotmail.com>
> To: jandek at mylist.net
> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:58:37 -0700
> Subject: [Jandek] RE: jandek Digest, Vol 54, Issue 204
> Re: Outsider Music -
>
> Actually, I also feel pretty disinclined to classify Jandek as "outsider
> music" anymore. The term itself is odd: I know a guy who performs in
> Canada
> under the name the Minimalist Jug Band who has made the point that the
> term
> "outsider music" is really condescending, implying something that is in
> itself not really art until someone selects it, makes it into art by
> virtue
> of a certain critical perspective. The artist is the urinal and the critic
> is Marcel Duchamp, putting it on display, if that makes sense... That
> said,
> I can understand the classification when it comes to Daniel Johnston or
> Wesley Willis... Increasingly it becomes clear that Jandek, however
> unusual
> his path, is in complete control of what he's doing, doing it
> intelligently
> and deliberately and with considerable self-awareness. And his music just
> doesn't seem that WEIRD anymore. In any event, the term doesn't fit.
>
> The thing about Jandek and Daniel Johnston though, is that both were
> self-releasing (more or less) very unusual work when they both started
> out,
> and no one KNEW that much about them. Actually, based on the relative
> emotional (in)accessibility/ "weirdness" of their songs, I would have
> guessed, having nothing else to go on, back in the late 1980s or early
> '90s,
> that Jandek was the "further out there." I tended to overestimate his
> alien
> characteristics and identify more with Johnston (I was also surprised,
> watching the film, by the degree of Johnston's problems). That means
> somethin', but I'm not sure what -- something about how these sorts of
> categories sort of depend on the presuppositions of listeners...
>
> Maybe Jandek was an outsider who became an insider? Or maybe the frame of
> reference itself repositioned itself around him, without him moving much
> at
> all? Maybe his own contribution to musical culture through his persistence
> created changes that set this process in motion -- he transformed popular
> musical culture significantly enough that it became more accepting of him,
> so that one day he woke up and he wasn't outside anymore, without ever
> having tried to come indoors?
>
> I dunno.
>
> A.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: allistur cranston <tuffgnarl70 at yahoo.co.uk>
> To: jandek at mylist.net
> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:19:58 +0100 (BST)
> Subject: Re: [Jandek] O/S orders
> i'm in the UK and i've just received my fifth order in about 2 years. i
> use the rather dodgy *wrapped up dollars in the post* method, but it's
> always worked fine. last one took a while to get here but he has been away,
> and if you ask him some questions he'll usually send a little note back too.
>
> *Yuval Legendtofski <legendtofski at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>  Boris,
>
> I ordfered a boxset last year. Unfortunately you gotta do it via IMO which
> add an extra 10 or so bucks to the order. Write the IMO to Corwood as per
> the address on the Tisue Website. Mr. Jandek CEO of Corwood Industries will
> then process yr order. Took me about three weeks all up to get the box, and
> because of new procedures in International Postage, Mr. Jandek will reveal
> his real name to you!
>
> It would be nice though if Corwood Industries had PayPal or some other
> payment options for us foreigners.
>
> Yuval
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Feigin Boris" <railfan93111 at hotmail.com>
> > To: jandek at mylist.net
> > Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006 11:09:38 +1000
> > Subject: [Jandek] Ordering Jandek CDs from overseas
> > Hi all:)
> >
> > How's everyone? I trust everything's well. Did anyone ever try to order
> > Jandek CDs from overseas? I live in Australia and just wondering what
> > the
> > procedure is and whether I'm likely to be successful.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Boris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "david martin" <dmartinromero at gmail.com>
> To: jandek at mylist.net
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:02:48 +0200
> Subject: [Jandek] What do Jandek fans listen
> Hello, apart of Jandek what other musicians/bands do you listen? Thanks
> for your replies.
>
> david
>
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