[Jandek] Re: wfmu Jandek auction

Mark Greenberg mark at mayfairrecordings.com
Sat Oct 9 13:51:02 PDT 2010

Well "Jesus Knievel", we will have to agree to disagree on Irwin's  
intent. I know Irwin professionally and personally and perhaps my  
insight comes from more than just reading the chapter in his book. He  
is who turned me and my friends on to Jandek many many years ago and  
I know that he turned a lot of people on to him. He knows the early  
records and is very much an expert on Jandek's pre-CD period whether  
you agree or not.  My feelings on it is that he was as drawn to them  
as equally as he was repelled by them. His attention and focus on  
Jandek shows he is maybe not being completely 100% honest in his  
appearance of disregarding Jandek or he wouldn't have spent the time  
or energy on him. I know this because there are loads of so called  
outsider 'geniuses' whose home-made cassettes and vanity pressed  
records have made their way in to Irwin's hands (he as you can expect  
is a magnet for such things) and he has assisted and decided they  
haven't the merit to focus or write about.

Also, in music writing such as Irwin's on Jandek, the writer can talk  
about the maker of the music through the lookingglass OF the music  
and that is always how I read Irwin's words on Jandek. Back then,  
that is the only way you COULD talk about Jandek as he didn't make  
himself available beyond the music and the records. You are more than  
entitled to disagree with his take but to say he isn't an expert and  
doesn't know his subject just because you disagree with his opinions  
is just factually incorrect. But hey, this is America. Do what makes  
you feel good I guess.... but I too am free to point out the  
weaknesses in your straw-man arguments.

I do want to point out a difference for doing something 'just for the  
money' and writing a book that you sell. Jandek makes CDs that he  
sells, though I would never accuse him of doing it just for the  
money. See what I'm saying? I am sort of embarrassed I would have to  
point that out.

On Oct 9, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Jesus Knievel wrote:

> I completely disagree. Quotes like the one I provided in my  
> previous post indicate to me that Chusid isn't any sort of Jandek  
> expert at all. It actually makes me suspect that he hasn't spent  
> much time listening to Jandek's work. I just re-read the chapter in  
> Songs In The Key of Z on Jandek. Chusid is mean-spirited to the  
> point of being cruel. He tries very hard to make Jandek out to be a  
> crazy person, (calling him a "deranged loner" for example). This is  
> no longer an opinion about music but just insulting. Chusid might  
> be a "full timer" but he seems to lack any iota of professionalism.  
> The purpose of his analysis of Jandek's work appears only to be to  
> further his conclusion that Jandek is a lunatic that produces non- 
> sensical music that pretty much no one likes. He offers no other  
> insights into Jandek's work. This is not journalism, it's character  
> assassination. I'm not interested in "protecting" Jandek. I don't  
> know him and how he feels about things is none of my business. This  
> isn't personal for me. It about unmasking a charlatan.
> Also, if Chusid wasn't interested in making money off his book then  
> why did I have to pay for my copy? Why doesn't he just put it up on  
> the Internet for free? Using bit torrent it could be done at no  
> cost to Mr. Chusid.
> I spend a lot of time listening to music as well as searching for  
> new music to listen to. I listen to all types of music, some of  
> which I'm not particularly interested in, but I do it for  
> educational purposes. I watch documentaries, read books, research  
> on the Internet, and sometimes I even write about music. Like Mr.  
> Chusid I have put years and years into it. The only difference  
> between us is that I approach my subject with respect and a notion  
> of decorum, not as some kind of circus barker selling tickets to  
> see the freaks.
> JK
> Sent from my iPad
> On 2010-10-08, at 4:52 PM, Mark Greenberg  
> <mark at mayfairrecordings.com> wrote:
>> I appreciate the varying takes on Jandek and really music in  
>> general on this list. I don't always agree with all things said on  
>> here but I respect it all and will challenge some when provoked  
>> but all in the spirit of good conversation and debate with  
>> passionate people.
>> That said, I think though that describing Irwin's book and  
>> involvement in Jandek (or outsider music and/or the other  
>> characters in his book) was based on money is a very unfair and  
>> totally unfounded statement. Though you may not agree with his  
>> take, his is still a very very informed opinion if nothing else.  
>> Irwin does the foot work. He's not one of these wikipedia educated  
>> music writer with a shallow knowledge of music history like the  
>> kids doing a lot of the music writing these days... He is a FULL  
>> TIMER and has put years and years and tons of his time and energy  
>> into discovering music that excites, incites, and interests him.  
>> Agree with him or not, but you can't pretend he is just in it for  
>> the money (...yeah, all that crazy money associated with writing  
>> about outsider musicians...)
>> Plus I don't think his description is disrespectful, offensive,  
>> unfair, based or prejudice. It is his opinion and reaction to the  
>> music. His description is a very vivid one meant to try to capture  
>> something that he hears in Jandek's music and body of work. I  
>> sometimes have fallen on the side of wanting to 'protect' our Rep  
>> (especially when it seemed like he wanted to be left alone), but  
>> he is not an infant or handicapped. He is an artist that has  
>> released his art into the world and like it or not, people will  
>> have differing valid opinions on it.
>> And Irwin's book is a good one worthy of buying and reading. No I  
>> don't agree with everything in it (nor do I in most music writing/ 
>> criticism) but it's a good read from a very smart and interesting  
>> and able writer on subjects that interest me.
>> -Mark
>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Jesus Knievel wrote:
>>> What I find offensive is comments such as:
>>> "Imagine a microphone cabled down a month-old tomb capturing the  
>>> subterranean munch of maggots nibbling a decaying corpse,  
>>> counterpointed by the agonized howls of a departed soul desperate  
>>> to escape tortuous decomposition and eternal boredom"
>>> That does not describe Jandek's music at all in my opinion. Such  
>>> sensationalism is irritates me because all it achieves is to keep  
>>> Jandek in some category of freaks that Mr. Chusid has consigned  
>>> him to. Jandek's work is not a joke and I think people should  
>>> stop treating it as if it is one. I don't think Chusid wrote his  
>>> book to spread the word about Jandek. He wrote it to make money.  
>>> I think that once you handed over the money you spent on the book  
>>> you've given him everything he's owed.
>>> JK
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On 2010-10-08, at 7:15 AM, Ross Morris <rossmorris1 at yahoo.co.uk>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't say I was offended by Chusid's chapter.  The guy's  
>>>> got one perspective on Jandek that I think is illegitimate,  
>>>> that, as Paul pointed out, has become increasingly redundant  
>>>> over time.  It's like the fable of the ugly duckling.  Jandek's  
>>>> worth is now being recognised by people all over the world, and  
>>>> it's no longer a useful way to look at Jandek's music.  Once  
>>>> again, that was particularly apparent with the Ottawa article  
>>>> which used the Chusid book as the source.
>>>> His contribution to the dissemination of the music is  
>>>> significant, and the gifts sent are indicative of Corwood's  
>>>> appreciation.  I just personally don't like the disrespect shown  
>>>> here.  My opinion.
>>>> Ross
>>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>>> Stephen wrote:
>>>> Maybe I need to reread the Jandek portion of Chusid's book, but  
>>>> I don't understand why you are all offended by this. Without  
>>>> Chusid, I would have never heard of Jandek and subsequently I  
>>>> would have never written a term paper on the artist in college.  
>>>> (I had a very hip American music prof who had once corresponded  
>>>> with Corwood and who I got to see the rep. with live in chapel  
>>>> hill!)
>>>> Who cares that Irwin isn't a fan of the music? Does that make  
>>>> him any less important to the dissemination of Jandek? No,  
>>>> absolutely not. WFMU is an important radio station for fans and  
>>>> artists of independent and non-mainstream artists, a la Jandek,  
>>>> so any support of them should be praised. While these CDs have  
>>>> little value to Chusid, he recognizes they are valuable to  
>>>> others. Chusid is forever tied to Jandek, whether you like it or  
>>>> not. And this collection is a piece of Corwood history, probably  
>>>> even more so due to their falling out.
>>>> I think what you're all losing sight of is that he could have  
>>>> just as easily thrown all of this into the garbage. It's absurd  
>>>> that people are peeved about his lack of sentimentality about  
>>>> these things, ESPECIALLY when it comes to an artist as  
>>>> polarizing as Jandek. Jandek records are either cherished or  
>>>> trashed; listeners of Jandek are not ambivalent.
>>>> So, for Churid to recognize their value to this community -- and  
>>>> to benefit a good cause (a point which is almost irrelevant in  
>>>> this context) -- he should be commended. When cleaning out a  
>>>> basement it's much simpler to put things at the curb than it is  
>>>> to put them online for others to benefit, value, and enjoy.
>>>> -Stephen
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