From ssdhamee@midway.uchicago.edu Mon Nov 02 21:47:13 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 8974 invoked from network); 2 Nov 1998 21:47:12 -0000 Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@128.135.12.3) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 2 Nov 1998 21:47:12 -0000 Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (root@midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.12]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13736 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:47:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from harper.uchicago.edu (root@harper.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.7]) by midway.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA10130 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:08:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (9491@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harper.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA05701 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:08:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:08:20 -0600 (CST) From: saleem saeed dhamee X-Sender: ssdhamee@harper.uchicago.edu Reply-To: saleem saeed dhamee cc: jandek Subject: new town In-Reply-To: <199810300029.SAA04882@postoffice.mr.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think new town is a really excellent album. It seems to me to have a very traditional-folk feel to it, although it of course is Jandek. When i heard the first track, i was totally blown away. Although it's a bit to early to tell for me, right now i consider it to be one of my favorits. cheers, Saleem From COURTOLY@aol.com Wed Nov 04 23:26:37 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 4275 invoked from network); 4 Nov 1998 23:26:36 -0000 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.7) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 4 Nov 1998 23:26:36 -0000 Received: from COURTOLY@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id IICIa04134 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:25:55 -0500 (EST) From: COURTOLY@aol.com Message-ID: <4a2e7e97.3640e283@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:25:55 EST To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: note to the Jandek list proprietor? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 190 hmmn.... i almost totally forgot i was on this list.... untill all these messages came through my girlfriend's email address.... namely = courtoly@aol.com.... who ever is in charge of maintaining this list, could you delete "courtoly@aol.com" from the list and substitute my new email address "agentduckhugger@hotmail.com"? it would be nice... oh and for whoever was looking for a copy of the living end... i have that record.. but i don't think i'm going to want to be giving it up eh... thanks aerick sigfred mackintosh (plastic duck recordings) agentduckhugger@hotmail.com (from now on... eh) From ssdhamee@midway.uchicago.edu Thu Nov 05 17:38:08 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 27792 invoked from network); 5 Nov 1998 17:38:08 -0000 Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@128.135.12.3) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 5 Nov 1998 17:38:08 -0000 Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (root@midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.12]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17053 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:42:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from harper.uchicago.edu (root@harper.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.7]) by midway.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA14229 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:39:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (9491@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harper.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA04745 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:39:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:39:37 -0600 (CST) From: saleem saeed dhamee X-Sender: ssdhamee@harper.uchicago.edu Reply-To: saleem saeed dhamee cc: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Subject: new town again In-Reply-To: <199810292105.PAA18872@midway.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I was thinking about new town and getting worried. Does anyone else think that it sounds rather like an end? Granted, Jandek has had some depressing sounding albums in the past, but to me new town seems somehow like a closing.... -saleem On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Seth Tisue wrote: > > See ; they're > selling six of them, including some very early ones. > > I've got the new CD "New Town" on order, should be here in a few days > and I can report... > > == Seth Tisue http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/ > Interviewer: "Do you just sit at home and play music all day?" > Bill Callahan (Smog): "Sometimes I stand." > From errora@earthlink.net Sat Nov 07 06:43:34 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 18292 invoked from network); 7 Nov 1998 06:43:34 -0000 Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (207.217.120.62) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 7 Nov 1998 06:43:34 -0000 Received: from 209.179.26.238 (pool038-max12.ds23-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.26.238]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02215; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:43:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3643EEEA.71B0@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 22:55:38 -0800 From: alec way Reply-To: errora@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: saleem saeed dhamee CC: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Subject: Re: new town again References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i feel a little different about new town. i think it's got a nice cover and the songs are short, sweet and to the point. lyrically, he's always shocking and that doesn't change on this record. i found white box more disturbing and harder to take in general. best, Alec From danenj@rocketmail.com Mon Nov 23 17:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 17968 invoked from network); 20 Nov 1998 22:35:03 -0000 Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (205.180.57.67) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 20 Nov 1998 22:35:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19981120222112.3154.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [130.184.142.171] by web1; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:21:12 PST Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:21:12 -0800 (PST) From: Danen Jobe Subject: Playwright seeking jandek info To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Howdy from Arkansas... My name is Danen Jobe and I'm a new subscriber to this list. It's interesting to me that such a list even exists... I just recently discovered that the (AMAZING) Jandek page even exists. For the first time ever I know the names of all the albums! But seriously... As a fan, I only own 2 Jandek albums, "The Living End" and "Somebody in the Snow". Prefer the latter to the former, but they sound quite similar... But more sequel that repeat... You know what I mean. I got these together in 1992 in a rather obscure little record store that has since gone out of business. I confess (with a red face) that I was led to them by seeing Spin's list and wondering who the hell this guy was. Of course, Spin never mentioned him again, and the time I found these are the ONLY times I've ever seen Jandek records. I live in Fayetteville, y'all, and you've really got to go out of your way to find good stuff. I wondered if Jandek had finally gone away, but then found an online music store wanting $20 a cd for Jandek cds. I have the feeling I can get them cheaper. Should I just write Corwood for the catalog and wait, or is there somewhere else I can order cheap? Anyway, i am a graduate playwrite (had 5 full lengths of interesting, diverse topics performed since '88) and am pondering doing a piece on...you guessed who! Naturally, this will prove interesting since nothing is known about Jandek. Me, I see it as a challenge. I am going to try to create a human being collage based on song lyrics and album covers. There's a story here, and one that I feel like telling. I will post more info on what I'm wanting to do with the storyline later... For now, would anyone tell me what to start with in collecting modern Jandek cd's? Also, is there ANY way to get old stuff? And where do I start there? (I'm most interested in the Blue Corpse, from what I've read...) Anyway, hope to hear any input from anybody on anything that might help with this script o' mine. I'm currently getting 2 other shows up next spring (sold 2 in one semester! Progress!)but hope to see this one performed. With Jandek's permission, I'd love to use some of the original music. (laugh here. I made a funny.) But if anyone should hang out at the Houston Post office and happen to see him come in, well... Hey, there's a play right there! "Waiting for Jandek", 2 ravenous fans wait day after day for artist to show up. At the end of everyday, some postal geek drops mail in the box and says, "I'm sure mr. Jandek will be in tomorrow." The 2 consider killing themselves, but... Oh well. Maybe I'll go back to the original idea. yours from the ozarks, danen jobe _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From danenj@rocketmail.com Mon Nov 23 17:48:43 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 13661 invoked from network); 21 Nov 1998 16:48:42 -0000 Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (205.180.57.67) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 21 Nov 1998 16:48:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19981121163450.3360.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [130.184.142.131] by web1; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:34:50 PST Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:34:50 -0800 (PST) From: Danen Jobe Subject: More a test than anything... but a strange message nonetheless... To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Howdy, Yesterday, I subscribed myself to this wonderful (i hope) jandek leest. I then sent a message talking about what little I know about Jandek and my desire to write a full length production on what little anybody knows about Jandek. For whatever reason, i never received the message back (through the list) and that makes me think that the list did not receive it. Soooo.... I'm sending this one to make sure that my system is working, or your system is working, or whatever. Anyhow, if anybody out there remembers seeing some longwinded, fandangled thang from a playwrite yesterday, please let me know that you got it (which would mean my system didn't receive it, for whatever reason.) If you DIDN'T see such a message, well... I was smart enough to save it, so you'll probably be seeing IT if I see THIS. Point is, this message is really just a test, so delete it now, ya hear? I'll have actually something to say as soon as I know all this stuff is working! not as weird as this message makes me seem, dj _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tisue@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu Mon Nov 23 17:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 26025 invoked from network); 23 Nov 1998 17:51:05 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu) (tisue@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Nov 1998 17:51:05 -0000 Subject: List back up To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu From: Seth Tisue Bcc: Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:51:05 -0600 Sender: tisue@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu Sorry, I was out of town and the mailing list was unavailable for a couple weeks. It's back up now. Danen, your first message did go through. == Seth Tisue http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/ GTO: "Well, here we are on the road." Driver: "Yup, that's where we are all right." - Rudolph Wurlitzer, "Two-Lane Blacktop" From danenj@rocketmail.com Tue Nov 24 19:53:29 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 30399 invoked from network); 24 Nov 1998 19:53:29 -0000 Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (205.180.57.67) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 24 Nov 1998 19:53:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19981124193933.29269.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [130.184.33.230] by web1; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:32 PST Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: Danen Jobe Subject: Re: Playwright seeking jandek info To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi all, First and foremost thank you Seth for getting the list back up and thank you listees for putting up with my second message! I thought my computer was fritzing... Secondly, thanks to everyone who has written in with places to get Jandek (no record options yet though! Doh!) I put an order in through Forced Exposure and decided to grab "New Town" and "Glad to Get Away" for starters. I decided on these 2 from reading the old mailing lists. When more $ comes my way, I'll grab the other 3. I don't know why I hadn't thought of ordering through FE, to be honest, as they've nicely padded my Albert Ayler collection this year. To any experimental jazz fans on this list: Grab "Spiritual Unity" NOW if you can get it... It's out of print! Okay, so I'm writing this play and I'm late for class NOW so I'll post more on that later. Meantime: Any personal experience stories anyone has will help! Jandek himself will probably NOT be in this script, but... Oh, it takes to long to explain. Just trust me; I need stories. Credit will be given for anything used in the script in the dedications section of my script. Anyhow, thanks for the warm welcome! Oh, and Seth, if you need some lyrics from "Somebody in the Snow", I'd be happy to give it the ol' college try. yours near the chicken house, Danen Jobe > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From djobe@comp.uark.edu Thu Nov 26 03:16:36 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 31832 invoked from network); 26 Nov 1998 03:16:36 -0000 Received: from comp.uark.edu (djobe@130.184.252.197) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 1998 03:16:36 -0000 Received: (from djobe@localhost) by comp.uark.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA20377; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:16:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:16:31 -0600 (CST) From: "Danen D. Jobe" X-Sender: djobe@comp To: robertc1@earthlink.net, sgunter@comp.uark.edu, kidchaos@ipa.net, Roger D Gross , jandek@cs.nwu.edu, tubman'98@hotmail.com, michaelhoerman@excitemail.com, skurdalss@fmplastics.com Subject: Fwd: German Man found 5 years after he died in front of television Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Had the feeling the sick senses of humor held by y'all just might appreciate this... The amazing thing to me is that it did not happen in America! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- ---Michael T Seaton wrote: > > German man found 5 years after he died in front of television > November 20, 1998 > > Reuters > > BONN -- A dead German sat in front of his television set for five years, > the lights on his Christmas tree flashing beside him, and none of his > neighbors noticed. > > "Someone said once that he had gone off to a home; I didn't ask any more," > said Monika Majarres, who lived in the same Hamburg block of flats as > Wolfgang Dircks, a divorced, disabled loner who died in 1993 at age 43. > > The two neighbors on his floor only moved in four years ago and had never > seen Dircks, a former toolmaker who had reportedly threatened to whip > anyone who asked about him. > > Other tenants in the 18-flat block minded their business. Bild newspaper > said on Thursday the dead man's letter box, which might have raised an > alarm when it overflowed, had been emptied every now and then, though no > one knows by whom. The landlords came knocking only after the bank > account from which Dirck's rent and bills were paid ran dry. > > Beside the broken television set and the still twinkling tree they found > his skeleton -- his TV listings magazine still on his lap and open on the > page for Dec. 5, 1993. > > From NCR13@aol.com Thu Nov 26 04:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 7070 invoked from network); 26 Nov 1998 04:54:16 -0000 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.70) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 26 Nov 1998 04:54:16 -0000 Received: from NCR13@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id ISEBa16323 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:53:30 +1900 (EST) From: NCR13@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:53:30 EST To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: German Man found 5 years after he died in front of television Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Somehow I can picture Jandek succumbing to a similar fate (to the extent that you can "picture" him doing anything). From ssdhamee@midway.uchicago.edu Fri Nov 27 19:31:12 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 14990 invoked from network); 27 Nov 1998 19:31:11 -0000 Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (root@128.135.12.3) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 27 Nov 1998 19:31:11 -0000 Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (root@midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.12]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23284 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:52:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from harper.uchicago.edu (root@harper.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.7]) by midway.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA20884 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:52:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (9491@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harper.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA01538 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:52:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:52:12 -0600 (CST) From: saleem saeed dhamee X-Sender: ssdhamee@harper.uchicago.edu Reply-To: saleem saeed dhamee cc: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Subject: Re: German Man found 5 years after he died in front of television In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII it'd make an interesting cover for a posthumous release... On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 NCR13@aol.com wrote: > Somehow I can picture Jandek succumbing to a similar fate (to the extent that > you can "picture" him doing anything). > From moxie@suba.com Mon Nov 30 15:24:36 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 4962 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 15:24:35 -0000 Received: from softdnserror (HELO suba01.suba.com) (198.87.202.2) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 15:24:35 -0000 Received: from localhost (moxie@localhost) by suba01.suba.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16024 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:24:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:24:25 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Lim X-Sender: moxie@suba01 To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: German Man found 5 years after he died in front of television In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Danen D. Jobe wrote: > Had the feeling the sick senses of humor held by y'all just might > appreciate this... The amazing thing to me is that it did not happen in > America! Not to be a party-pooper, but the story reeks of a feeble attempt at an urban legend. Anybody have any spare Corwoods to trade? I've got extras of 0754 (You Walk Alone) and 0756 (Living End) and am looking for anything 0752 or below (in other words, pre-Blue Corpse). I've got a smattering of other dupes as well, let me know. Sorry, I'm only looking for trades right now- if the two people that posted recently about these very albums still need tapes, I can do that (though in all seriousness it'll be a couple months before I make them). Oh, and hey Seth- do you have info on how to unsubscribe? The only information I have is on subscribing... later, -rob From moxie@suba.com Mon Nov 30 15:27:57 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 5441 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 15:27:56 -0000 Received: from softdnserror (HELO suba01.suba.com) (198.87.202.2) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 15:27:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (moxie@localhost) by suba01.suba.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA16194 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:27:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:27:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Lim X-Sender: moxie@suba01 To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Subject: Re: oops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry, forgot to mention to respond to r-lim-1@alumni.uchicago.edu on that last message- don't check this acct v. often. It occured to me that it sounded like I was accusing Danen of trying to _start_ an urban legend as opposed to just forwarding one on. Sorry about that. -rob From danenj@rocketmail.com Mon Nov 30 19:41:42 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 27928 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 19:41:41 -0000 Received: from web1.rocketmail.com (205.180.57.67) by godzilla.cs.nwu.edu with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 19:41:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19981130192737.27284.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com> Received: from [12.10.77.225] by web1; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:27:37 PST Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:27:37 -0800 (PST) From: Danen Jobe Subject: Re: oops To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Robert Lim wrote: > > It occured to me that it sounded like I was accusing Danen of trying to > _start_ an urban legend as opposed to just forwarding one on. Sorry about > that. > no prob. Actually, this was just a message forwarded to me by somebody else. In the interest of keeping legit, I checked the stats with Reuters, and it's true! I'll bet, though, by the time it finishes running around the web the story will have changed. What I sent is the original article... Actually, I think this topic would make a great Jandek song... Danen Jobe > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From tisue@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu Mon Nov 30 21:18:05 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Received: (qmail 4159 invoked from network); 30 Nov 1998 21:18:04 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu) (tisue@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 30 Nov 1998 21:18:04 -0000 To: jandek@cs.nwu.edu Bcc: Subject: Re: Fwd: German Man found 5 years after he died in front of television From: Seth Tisue In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:24:25 CST." Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:18:04 -0600 Sender: tisue@Godzilla.cs.nwu.edu >>>>> "Robert" == Robert Lim writes: Robert> Oh, and hey Seth- do you have info on how to unsubscribe? Robert> The only information I have is on subscribing... To unsubscribe, send a blank message with subject line "unsubscribe" to jandek-request@cs.nwu.edu. If that doesn't work (and it won't if you're not mailing from the same account that you subscribed under), then just E-mail me and I'll take care of it. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave, == Seth Tisue http://www.cs.nwu.edu/~tisue/ "The Tao of progress appears as retreat" - Lao Tzu